Military Doctors: Student Doctor Forum

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Military Medicine Discussion of Medical Corps issues.

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10-12-2007, 05:14 PM	#1
Member 95491 Supa Dupa Fly Doc Status: Medical Student Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: FL Posts: 71	Military Resident's vs. Military Physician's Salary SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads) hello. i am trying to evaluate the difference in pay if i did a military vs. civilian residency. does anyone know the paychart for PGY1-PGY4 for psych residents? also, if i were to do a civilian residency in psych, then come back to the military to serve my 4 years as a psychiatrist, how much will i be making with the military for the next 4 years? will i be taking a considerable paycut? i'm just trying to see which way is the best financially.... thanx __________________ I believe you have my stapler!

10-13-2007, 12:13 AM	#2
Member 111225 Attending Status: Attending Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 668	check out my post on the useful military website thread above. Then add in ASP, ISP, VSP, board cert pay and MSP VSP 5000-12000/yr - paid monthly board cert pay 2500-6000/yr- paid monthly ASP 15,000/yr ISP - depends on your specialty, usually 13,000-36,000/yr MSP - for signing a multiyear bonus, rates depend on 2,3,or 4 year contracts and specialty You don't get ASP, ISP, or board cert pay as a resident but after internship you get VSP Simple....

10-13-2007, 12:52 AM	#3
Member 73626 The Lorax Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,905	Here is detailed info about medical officer pay: http://www.militarymedicine.com/node/36 __________________ Check out the Military GME Survival guide and FAQ!

10-13-2007, 08:52 AM	#4
Member 30557 Now an X-R-Me-Doc Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 328	Here's my own personal bottom line (I knew these old tax forms would come in handy some day . . . )  The most I made as a resident (O3, captain) was $62,000 a year including all the "specialty" pays and my housing allowance (which was relatively high due to where I lived). Not too shabby by any means for a resident.  BUT . . . The most I made in a single calendar year during my 4 years of payback time, including all the incentive pays, board cert pay, housing (in a "cheaper" area for housing allowance), etc, was $95,000 (during that year I was an O3 for the first 6 months and an O4 for the other 6). At that time, civilianstarting salaries for my specialty right out of residency were running about $140-150K, so I would say that I, with 3+ years of post-residency experience, was relatively underpaid, no?  Had I stayed beyond June of my final year (i.e., put in an entire year as an O4), I probably would have made about $120,000 for that year. That's in a specialty that's paid not much different from psych in the military, but had I been a civilian private practice doc with the same 4 years post-residency experience I would have been in the $200K ballpark.  Bottom line, which has been reiterated here many times: For most specialties, residency is a good financial deal, payback time is not. And I can't be convinced that the extra you make during residency makes up for the relatively larger losses you incur during payback (unless you are one heck of an investor . . . in which case, you're in the wrong business to begin with! ) X-RMD

10-13-2007, 05:06 PM	#5
Member 86196 1K Member Status: Medical Student Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,022	Quote: Originally Posted by R-Me-Doc  Here's my own personal bottom line (I knew these old tax forms would come in handy some day . . . )  The most I made as a resident (O3, captain) was $62,000 a year including all the "specialty" pays and my housing allowance (which was relatively high due to where I lived). Not too shabby by any means for a resident.  BUT . . . The most I made in a single calendar year during my 4 years of payback time, including all the incentive pays, board cert pay, housing (in a "cheaper" area for housing allowance), etc, was $95,000 (during that year I was an O3 for the first 6 months and an O4 for the other 6). At that time, civilian starting salaries for my specialty right out of residency were running about $140-150K, so I would say that I, with 3+ years of post-residency experience, was relatively underpaid, no?  Had I stayed beyond June of my final year (i.e., put in an entire year as an O4), I probably would have made about $120,000 for that year. That's in a specialty that's paid not much different from psych in the military, but had I been a civilian private practice doc with the same 4 years post-residency experience I would have been in the $200K ballpark.  Bottom line, which has been reiterated here many times: For most specialties, residency is a good financial deal, payback time is not. And I can't be convinced that the extra you make during residency makes up for the relatively larger losses you incur during payback (unless you are one heck of an investor . . . in which case, you're in the wrong business to begin with! ) X-RMD  But what if you averaged the value of an HPSP scholarship (worth about 45k a year now at a private or OOS school, plus the new stipend if it is approved which is like another 22k) over those four years of pay back time? Then it almost seems like it is fair deal, then you get out with a few years of experience and are ready to make the big bucks...

10-14-2007, 04:55 PM	#6
Member 100420 New Member Status: Resident Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 50	It has been shown multiple times on this site that the HPSP "scholarship" does NOT make financial sense, especially if you go into a high paying subspecialty. If you take the scholarship for the money, it will always be a poor decision and it sounds like you will most likely regret it. To justify the financial aspect, I look at it a slightly different way. By taking a 4 year scholarship, you will definitely be living more comfortably than your classmates during medical school, especially if you take out a subsidized stafford loan each year. During residency you will be making closer to $60,000 rather than closer to $40,000, thus having a little more financial freedom. Will your colleagues be making considerably more as attendings? Yes, but you will not be starving during that time. Your friends trade those 8 years of scrapping by in med school and residency for big payoffs afterwards while you are able to live more comfortably throughout. Just how I try to look at it... Last edited by monkeybaronjr; 10-14-2007 at 07:03 PM. Reason: wording

10-14-2007, 05:28 PM	#7
Member 86196 1K Member Status: Medical Student Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,022	Not for the money Quote: Originally Posted by monkeybaronjr  It has been shown multiple times on this site that the HPSP "scholarship" does NOT make financial sense, especially if you go into a high paying subspecialty. If you take the scholarship for the money, it will always be a poor decision and it sounds like you will most likely regret it. To justify the financial aspect, I look at it a slightly different way. By taking a 4 year scholarship, you will definitely be living more comfortably than your classmates for those 4 years, especially if you take out the subsidized stafford loan each year. During residency you will be making closer to $60,000 rather than closer to $40,000 and thus living more comfortably. Will your colleagues be making considerably more as attendings? Yes, but you will not be starving. Your friends trade those 8 years of scrapping by in med school and residency for big payoffs afterwards while you are able to live a little... Just how I try to look at it... I agree with you. I was just using the math from the previous poster. Most people forget to add in the value of the scholarship when they are comparing their pay during their payback years compared to the salary their civilian counterparts make. Once again, specialties will far outpace military income, primary care docs not so much. I wouldn't do the military route only for the money. It would only lead to too much bitterness in the end.

10-15-2007, 02:57 PM	#8
Member 107882 Member Status: Resident Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 556	Quote: Originally Posted by elderjack21  I agree with you. I was just using the math from the previous poster. Most people forget to add in the value of the scholarship when they are comparing their pay during their payback years compared to the salary their civilian counterparts make. Once again, specialties will far outpace military income, primary care docs not so much. I wouldn't do the military route only for the money. It would only lead to too much bitterness in the end. Elderjack: judging by your avatar, you are prior service and spent some time in the middle of nowhere in AZ. If you are prior service, have dependents, and going to an expensive med school, the financial calculations change quite a bit. 96B? For some people, the military means about 100K in benefits, which is off set quickly post-residency. For others, the difference is $500K. I'll show the math if interested. BUT, joining the military only for the money usually makes for unhappy docs. I recommend people talk to someone in the specialty and in the service they are interested in to truly find out if it is right for them. I like serving with good Americans, despite the innane bureaucracy.

10-28-2007, 07:22 PM	#9
Member 45489 Stealthfully Sarcastic Status: Resident Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The forgotten Island Posts: 3,413	Questions about the various payment schedules arise every few months on this board. In general, you will about $60,000 a year as a military resident, and about $40,000 a year as a civilian resident. I did a more detailed analysis of HPSP vs civilian world on this website. About the only way you're going to come out ahead is via primary care. With any other specialty, the best bet is to take out loans. __________________ When all else fails, read the manual (The Not So Short Introduction to Getting Into Medical School) Half MD -- Tales from the eyes of a medical student

10-30-2007, 01:57 PM	#10
Member 166798 Junior Member Status: Pre-Medical Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 15	Quote: Originally Posted by deuist  Questions about the various payment schedules arise every few months on this board. In general, you will about $60,000 a year as a military resident, and about $40,000 a year as a civilian resident. I did a more detailed analysis of HPSP vs civilian world on this website. About the only way you're going to come out ahead is via primary care. With any other specialty, the best bet is to take out loans. Hey deuist, where did you hear or see the rumor about the stipend for HPSP going up (possibly to 30,000)? Just curious.

10-30-2007, 02:26 PM	#11
Member 166798 Junior Member Status: Pre-Medical Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 15	Nevermind, I found that they were going to do that about a year ago and decided they didnt have the money for it. Atleast the stipend went up to about 1600/month on sept 1, 2007 and may go up to 1900/month for the 08/09 year.

10-31-2007, 04:18 AM	#12
Member 100318 Senior Member Status: Attending Join Date: May 2006 Location: Manning a Cubicle Posts: 2,510	Quote: Originally Posted by ChristianDoc  Nevermind, I found that they were going to do that about a year ago and decided they didnt have the money for it. Atleast the stipend went up to about 1600/month on sept 1, 2007 and may go up to 1900/month for the 08/09 year. That's not a may, it will go up to 1907 as of 1 Jul 08.